Red Flags or Overly Anxious?

[Ruby2105]

Hi ladies,

I'm a mom and my 2.5 year old just started a new daycare (in-home licensed) and I would like some perspective.

My son has been in a home care before, from about 12 weeks-18 months (he did great there), but since we moved states last year, he has been home with me. I didn't work right when we moved because we were adjusting to our new state and then I got pregnant (sick all the time) so I knew all the time home would make his daycare transition difficult. We found a nice lady who runs a licensed daycare near our home; she has 30+ years of experience.

My son only goes three days a week and this is his second week, so of course I understand we are still in a transitional phase. Mornings are very difficult, he cries a lot, but the owner always texts me within an hour saying he has calmed down, great! The first two days I picked him, he was all smiles and happy to see me. He seemed very comfortable with the owner which of course made me happy. The third day I picked him up, he was crying and reaching out for me. I asked what was wrong and she said he's been on and off crying since the other kids got picked up. Okay, I can understand that my son is very sociable. Next few days he was crying again at pick up, but it was weird, it was low whimpering with tears and he was reaching out for me again. I asked if he started crying when the other kids left and she claims he just started (both times) as soon as she said I was here. It wasn't like a he didn't want to leave cry, he willingly came to me, but it was just so odd, he looked so upset. I told my husband my concerns, but he just wrote it off. By the time I get him home, he's his usual happy self again. My husband is also a very laid back person in general.

Yesterday, I had to stay a little longer at work so I asked my husband to pick him up. When my husband went, the second door was open so he can see inside (first door was closed but has a window) and he said my son was just standing there oddly staring at nothing. All the kids were gone except for a baby who was in a bouncer and the owner was in the bathroom so they were alone in the room. When he noticed my husband was there he started the same weird whimpering cry. She came out, got his jacket on and spoke to my husband fine, but my husband was also perplexed by his behavior. He was low crying like he was scared (and he looooves my husband, always runs to him) but yesterday he reacted with him the same way he does with me at pick-up. Owner says he had a good day. After seeing my son's behavior himself, my husband finds it a bit disturbing.

So all of the above combined with the following is giving me some bad vibes about this daycare. Yesterday while I was texting the owner letting her know my husband will get him, she was giving me some updates about his day and mentioned he was crying a little but "Jenny" held him and made him feel better. So right away I go, "who is 'Jenny'? The owner had informed me that she has two registered subs in case of an emergency, her son who I have never met and another woman who's name isn't "Jenny." "Jenny" is a friend of hers who comes by sometimes. Apparently in the morning the owner went to an appointment and left the kids with her son, the registered sub, and "Jenny" for a few hours. So basically my son was with two strangers who I've never met. In the contract, she stated that the registered sub only comes in case of an emergency and she always let's the parents know beforehand. It wasn't an emergency and she didn't let me know.

I was honestly fuming. She apologized and was quick to let me know that she's known her for years and trusts her with the kids and the registered sub was there the whole time. I haven't even met her son, let alone "Jenny." And it truly doesn't mean anything to me that she trusts her, I obviously dont. I accepted her apology and let it go because what else can I really say? My son doesn't go back until next week so thankfully he's not there right now.

I apologize how lengthy this is. I just want to know if I'm overreacting (because I know I am very anxious about my child) or is all of this concerning. My gut is telling me it is, but we don't have any other childcare options right now either. At the end of the day, my son's saftey will always come first, but I don't want to pull him out if this is all normal? Do I have a right to be upset? Otherwise, it seemed like a good fit. She's close by, reasonably priced, she interacted very well with my son during the tour, and updates me everyday. What do you all think?

[Springvalley]

Have a meeting with her ASAP and document EVERYTHING that's said between both parties and then if something happens then you will have proof!

[Ruby2105]

I spoke to her via text because my husband was the one who picked him up yesterday, so I do have documentation, but you would say this is all concerning?

[GirlMomma]

Are you seeing signs of abuse? Are they unexplainable marks or bruises on your child? I don’t think your son’s behavior is concerning. It sounds like normal behavior after just two weeks, six days total, with a new provider. He’s still adjusting to a new environment, I’m sure he is a little nervous.

I have a little boy in my daycare, he’s 22 months old, he won’t cry at drop off at all nor will he cry at all throughout the day… But as soon as he sees his mom come to the door for pick up, he cries! His mother has seen it for herself when she’s peeked in thru my window. He was fine, saw her and started crying “Mama!”

As far as not being made aware of the sub ahead of time, I would be upset and discuss my concerns with your provider. If you want to meet her son, just ask.

My own daughter, who’s 3, goes to pre-school 2 days/week. It’s just for her to gain a little independence away from us. Anyways, it took her nearly six weeks and a lot of coaching for her to adjust.

I hope this helps! 😊

[Ruby2105]

Thank you so much for your reply !

[Cat Herder]

To me, it sounds like your son knows how to get your attention by feeding into your insecurity during transitions of care. It is extremely common. We joke about it, "Changing of the Guard" is a hugely popular blog here, and has been since 2010-ish https://www.daycare.com/nannyde/the-...heir%20control.

Part-time kids take much longer to transition, as well.

As for not notifying you of a doctors appointment, it may have been an oversight since she has been doing it for so many years that everyone else in your community already knows. Re-read your contract and handbook to make sure there is no mention of Jenny before going forward. Then ask to meet Jenny. I think it may go smoother than you think.

[Ruby2105]

I'm not sure what you mean by knowing he can get my attention? I give him the same amount of attention whether he's crying or not.

[Cat Herder]

It isn't about you. No worries. Standard child developmental stages.

[flyingjewels]

You’ve been home with him for a while. He’s basically starting all over with daycare and he’s part time. Part time kids have the hardest time adjusting. It’s not uncommon for kids to cry at pick up too. They get so excited to see their parents they get emotional. And it doesn’t sound or look like excitement, but it’l is and it’s just how it comes out.

Him standing there staring isn’t a big deal either. She went to the bathroom and probably asked him to stay right there.

She didn’t follow contract about the sub. So talk to her more about it and offer to meet her son if you’re concerned about him.

There isn’t any evidence of abuse. And if he is getting sympathy from y’all over his whimpering, he’s just going to amp it up now. Look for other care and keep him there until you can find something else. I think you need a center, not in-home.

[Ruby2105]

flyingjewels I am totally fine with an in-home. As I've said, my son has been in one before we moved and we loved it. What I'm not fine with is not being made aware of who is caring for my child.

[flyingjewels]

Ruby2105

She should be following her licensing rules and have Jenny approved for a sub. That is 100% on her and her fault.

Your other comments seemed like nit picking mixed with just not realizing the behavior can be normal. Which I understand the Jenny thing could have just exasperated all of that.

[Ruby2105]

flyingjewels That's why I posted here, to gain perspective, because I can understand how easily I can overreact with my son. I know it's only been a few days, so I get that his behavior may be atypical for him for some time. But he just seems so scared so it's unnerving. But I've been letting that go telling myself he's adjusting (which very well may be the case). But the Jenny thing, I think I have a right to be upset about also that the sub who was emergency only was used just for an appointment without notice to the parents (or at lease me). Another thing that concerns me is that my son has allergies and an epipen; I have no idea if the sub and the random friend know that or how to use an epipen. I'd like to think they were informed but I just have no idea. I will definitely be talking to her about that.

[Sahm121]

The crying/whimpering when they see you is something I’ve seen a lot. The kids play and follow their routine and are distracted and when they see mom/dad, they suddenly remember that they miss them and start to cry. There’s videos on TikTok and other social medias showing parents picking up their kids and instantly the tears start.

the staring into space could be that she told him to wait right there while she went to the bathroom and he took it literally since he’s 2. I tell my 2-3s that I need to go potty and they’ll freeze in their spot 😂

[Ruby2105]

Lol they are very literal. The crying at pickup I think I'm so confused because the first two days he was happy at pick up. And when he was in care before (much younger so I know it's different) he was very happy too. It just throws me off a little.

[GirlMomma]

Ruby2105 he was fine the first two days because it was new and exciting! This is very typical of children.

[Ruby2105]

Thanks for saying that, it does ease my mind a little.

[Ruby2105]

Thanks all, I'm not seeing signs of abuse physically and I'm not necessarily suggesting my son's behavior is telling me that. I'm also aware he's still adjusting. But that, combined with her leaving my son in the care of strangers for a doctor's appointment is really bothering me. The contract states "in the event of an emergency, registered subs will be utilized and all parents will be informed immediately." As far as "Jenny" she is absolutely no where in the contract nor was she ever mentioned to me.

[flyingjewels]

Her policy states what she will do in the event of an emergency. What does it say for her doctor appts and planned leaves? Those are separate things in my opinion. If she has nothing about that then she may not have ever had an issue with this before and you may be her first. She might have to had it in there now.

She should list her friend Jenny as a sub if she’s going to use her.

[Cat Herder]

Absolutely. I have to post my relief persons national background check by the front door. All persons in my home during daycare hours (over age 13) are required to have that onsite and available for viewing. The state approves them, before they can be in the presence of kids. That means I can't even have a lawn service, water filtration or pest control during business hours. By state law.

[Ruby2105]

I definitely don't consider a doctor's appointment an emergency. She has a separate section in the contract regarding planned days off, she closes for the day or early which is totally understandable. She even said in the interview that the registered subs are for emergencies only.

I was told that Jenny came over because the registered sub, her son, doesn't like to change BM's. Idk, I guess it's a technicality because the registered sub was there, but it just doesn't sit right with me. Jenny has not done a background check with the state or anything. I absolutely she should be placed as a registered sub, verified, if she's going to use her in any capacity.

[Pestle]

Who is actually watching your child is important and you need to know what's going on.

Your child crying at transitions? Your child crying when they notice that their parent is not actually somewhere else but is watching them? That's standard issue; a child who does not exhibit those behaviors is more concerning to me than a child who does.

[Ruby2105]

I agree. His behavior concerned me because I just dont like seeing him sad and of course he's only 2, he can't truly verbalize everything that goes on. But the who was watching him part was what really upset me.

[Blackcat31]

I have a little one that turned 2 today. Every day at pick up he is the last kid here. He starts kind of whimpering when the last kid before him leaves. When his parent arrives, he "shallow cries" and buries his face into his parent. They always looks so overly concerned that something is wrong. I tell them every day he is happy and plays well and is simply sad because his friends all left and he's waiting for them. I thought it was kind of odd at first as I've had kids outright cry at the end of the day for many of the reasons listed in previous posts but the other day, I noticed my daycare kid peeking at me out of the corner of his eye while he was snuggled into mom's shoulder and I swear he was kind of "fake crying" because his mom was so concerned.

I don't know.... Kids are funny but I guess I wouldn't worry about it too much unless it never gets any better. How does he behave upon drop off? Does he need to be pried out of your arms or does he go in willingly even with the tears? Have you asked the provider about the behavior?

Has she sent pictures to you at all? I snap random photos of the child I mentioned about as he is engaging in different activities throughout the day so they can see he is playing and having fun. I never send "staged" photos and try to send pictures of the child while he is completely unaware that I am taking his picture.

As for Jenny.... I personally think your best defense is to simply talk with your provider. You won't know unless you discuss it with her. Let he know your concerns and why.
If she's an experienced provider she will understand that you are not trying to be overly protective but are just doing your job and settling your nerves.

[Ruby2105]

At drop off he clings to me and cries, but I can absolutely understand that, it's so new to him. She says he calms down within half an hour and sends me updates via texts, but not once a picture or video. And I understand she's busy with the kids so I don't ask for one. But seeing him play or smiling throughout the day may help because other than the first two days at pick up, I've only seen him sad and tearful.

[Springvalley]

I spoke to her via text because my husband was the one who picked him up yesterday, so I do have documentation, but you would say this is all concerning?

Depends on the circumstances. Is he crying at drop off/pick up? Does he do good with transitions?

[Blackcat31]

At drop off he clings to me and cries, but I can absolutely understand that, it's so new to him. She says he calms down within half an hour and sends me updates via texts, but not once a picture or video. And I understand she's busy with the kids so I don't ask for one. But seeing him play or smiling throughout the day may help because other than the first two days at pick up, I've only seen him sad and tearful.

When she does take him from you at drop off though, is he crying like he doesn't really want you to leave (which is 100% normal for any child) or is it a "terrified" something is wrong kind of cry? To me the TYPE of crying he does would say alot.

As for her being busy with the other kids....I have 12 little girls (under school age) all by myself and I can find two seconds to snap a couple quick pictures or video to reassure a mom with a newly enrolled toddler. If she has time to visit with Jenny, she has time to send a few photos/videos. Know what I mean?

What state are you in if you don't mind me asking? So many states have such vastly different rules so I am curious what rules your state has for subs/visitors etc.
Are you able to look up her licensing history? If so, some states such as mine allow you to see if the provider has any minor or major licensing violations, when and what was done to remedy the violation.

[Ruby2105]

That's a good point on the timing for picture thing. In her defense, I've never actually asked her for one so I won't fault her on that. It would be nice to recieve at least one pic a day.

I'm in Maryland and I was able to check out her lisence. She has some violations, but nothing saftey related- things like parents not receiving copies of paperwork and things like that and all have been corrected.

The type of crying in the morning was the typical, "I don't want you to leave" crying. But yesterday was unnerving because he started shaking without tears as soon as we pulled up to the daycare. He was shaking, not saying a word, not crying, while I got him from his carseat and carried him in. Just kept shaking while clinging to me. Then he started crying as soon as I put him down to leave. But it wasnt a tantrums just crying and shaking. That, with the pick up behavior and the random subs all happened yesterday and it's why I feel so anxious now.

[flyingjewels]

I’ve found my part time kids cry the most at drop off and don’t usually ever stop or goes back and forth. Then all my kids will cry after a vacation, long illness, or long break. Then after a couple days they are right back to what they were doing.

If I have ever had a full time child that still cries at drop off every morning after a few weeks it has 99.9% been the dropping off parents fault. Unintentionally. It’s really important to be positive and confident and quick at drop off. On the way to daycare talk about how excited you are for them to come and have fun and play with their friends. Talk in a really peppy and smiley voice. Boost their confidence and show that you’re confident in where they are going. Then at drop off just a quick “love you, I’ll be back, you’re going to have fun today!” Boom and leave. No lingering. No talking about much at drop off. At pick up is when you can discuss a little more if need be and there is no negative reactions from the child.

Just saying all of this incase you decide to stay here and he doesn’t ever ease up with drop offs and you get concerned. Because he may never completely ease up and he especially won’t if you show any anxiety, carry him in, linger at drop off, cling to him, etc. Not saying you do any of that, just throwing it all out there and for anyone else reading.

[Ruby2105]

Thanks for the advice, that's exactly what I do. A quick I love you, have a great day and I'm out. According to the owner he settles down quickly; I'm just more concerned that she didn't tell me she was leaving my son with other people honestly when her contract clearly states she would and only for emergencies. It just makes me wonder what else goes on that I don't know about.

[flyingjewels]

Ruby2105

That’s your right to question that. I’d ask her why she doesn’t have her sub approved by the state and listed on the agreement. See what she says. She definitely wasn’t trying to hide her from you since she mentioned her name so casually. So that’s a good sign I guess. It is possible she’s already had a background check done too. Because if she’s licensed, licensing shows up unannounced. She shouldn’t risk having another adult they’re not approved. Unless your state is really lax about it. Talking to her more will clear a lot of this up too. I hope it all works out for you.

[e.j.]

As a parent, I totally understand your anxiety. It's tough seeing your child behave the way he is (crying, whimpering, staring at nothing...), and not really have any way of knowing what's happening during his day other than by trusting what your provider is telling you. I changed daycares 3 times before finally deciding to open my own daycare partly because my son was so unhappy in care but also because I was the poster child for anxious daycare parents so I get where you're coming from.

Since I don't know your current provider, I can't tell you for sure that there's nothing you should be concerned about. As a daycare provider, though, I can tell you your son's behavior isn't all that unusual. I've seen the same kinds of behaviors in some of my own daycare kids over the years. Seeing the behaviors from the perspective of a provider has made me feel better about my own son's daycare experience - on the whole, at least.

I currently have a dcb who immediately came to mind when I read through your post. He's also 2.5, was home with either his parents or grandmothers up until September, when he was enrolled in my daycare. He also has an infant brother at home who was born just before he started coming here. He has come in crying pretty much every day since he started here. One big difference is he's very verbal. I can hear him talking to his mom the entire walk in: "Please take me home! Don't leave me here! Please don't make me stay! Please don't drive away! Come back!..." You would think he's being tortured while he's here. (He's not! lol) Like your provider, I send updates each day - along with pics - so his mom can see for herself that he's participating in activities, smiling and happy and not miserable at all. Although I could do without the morning drama, he's actually one of the best-behaved kids I've ever had in my care and would gladly clone him if I could!

Think about the changes your son has been through recently - moving, new baby in the house and even though he's been to a daycare before, it was at an age when, as long as his basic needs were met, he probably would have been happy with anyone caring for him. It may be that he just needs a little more time to make this additional transition.
My dcb is finally starting to adjust. I've actually had 2-3 days (not in a row) lately when he's come in excited and smiling. I find it's a "take one step forward then 3 steps back" process with him. Also, it's been my experience that the kids who are last to leave often cry. I had one not long ago that would go into full meltdown every day since his parents were always last to pick up. Kids do cry when their parents arrive for pick up even if they've been happy all day and aren't the last ones to leave - relief that the parent has returned? Tired because they've been so active all day? There could be any number of reasons, but I've seen it enough to know it's not unusual. Staring blindly? Often a child will suddenly notice I've disappeared into another room. I can see them; they can't see me. They stop playing and stare. I'm not sure if it's because they can't play and process why I'm not there in the room or if they're listening for sounds that will tell them where I am but, again, I've seen it happen. Is it possible your son heard your husband's car pull up, heard the door opening...? Maybe he stopped where he was to listen in order to know if his mom or dad had arrived? Also, I always warn my new dc parents that day 1 and day 2 almost always go well because the kids are excited about playing with new toys and playing with new friends. Day 3 and 4 are often the tough days here. They haven't been here long enough to feel truly comfortable with me and the other kids but they've been here long enough to know things are different here than they are at home.

If your current provider has been in business for 30+ years, chances are, she hasn't remained in business for that long by abusing kids. I totally understand your being upset about "Jenny". As a parent, I would have been upset, too. If it helps to set your mind at ease, understand that most likely, your provider's reputation is everything to her. If she cares about her business (my guess is, she does if she's been in business this long), she's not going to risk her reputation, along with her house and anything else of value should something go wrong - by allowing someone to sub for her that she doesn't consider to be highly trustworthy. One piece of good news is that it doesn't appear as though she was trying to hide the fact that Jenny subbed for her. She probably just didn't realize that either Jenny's name hasn't been added to the information she gives newly enrolled parents or it was a decision made out of necessity if her other subs weren't available and she needed to be seen. If I were in your shoes, I'd ask her what constitutes an emergency to her so you know under what circumstances she would leave your child with a sub and I'd ask to meet all of her subs just so you can feel more comfortable with them watching your son in the future. If after that, you're still feeling uncomfortable, I'd say look for another daycare provider. Good luck. I hope it works out for you in the long run.

[Ruby2105]

Thank you so much. This helps me see another perspective. Though my son's behavior is odd and new to me, he is going through transitions and he's only 2; toddlers are just weird lol. But it helps to know the behavior isn't all that abnormal from a provider's point of view.

[e.j.]

Ruby2105 I was thinking more about your post last night and wanted to make a couple of suggestions. If your provider isn't sending pictures along with her texts, you may want to ask her to do that at least until you feel more comfortable. I do it for the parents of 2 of my new kids. It only takes a few minutes out of my day to do and it makes the moms feel better. Just be understanding if she feels she can't. I've missed a day or two myself because it was so busy here, I just couldn't get to it or forgot. Sometimes I'll also go to send a pic and realize I don't have one that doesn't include another child so I send an update text but no pic since I don't share digital pics of kids with anyone but their parents.

The other suggestion I'd have is to stop by unannounced. Plan to stop by later in the day, be quick and take your child home with you when you leave. (Stopping by earlier in the day, at lunch time or at nap time won't be appreciated and you run the risk of upsetting your child if you leave without him. Your provider will have to deal with the fallout. Not cool.) Picking up earlier than expected may give you a feel for how the kids are being treated at the time and whether his crying at pick up is related to being picked up last or is just stress relief for him, etc.

If you're really concerned about his behavior and there's an area where you can stand unseen by your child, you may want to ask your provider if she's comfortable with you observing for a few minutes. When I have a child who cries at drop off and the parent seems to be anxious about it, I'll suggest that the parent stand in my breezeway for a bit so she can hear for herself that the child stops crying almost immediately when he believes the parent is gone. It's almost funny how often this happens!

As far as her subs are concerned, if you're comfortable with your provider but not so much with her subs, you could always ask her to notify you so you can pick your son up rather than leave him with a sub. (If it's a true emergency and she can't make the call or text, her sub can.) One of my son's providers used to take all of her dc kids to another provider's house about 45 minutes away so they could visit and let the kids swim in the other provider's pool. I wasn't comfortable with that and asked her to let me know when she planned an outing so I could pick him up before she left her house. I didn't love this arrangement but preferred it to worrying all day about his safety. Anyway...just a few suggestions I thought might help. ;-)