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Should I Cut Ties?

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  • Should I Cut Ties?

    I started DCB (21 months) last week. He was only here for three days. All three days, he followed me around… screaming every time. It’s a safety hazard when I’m making lunch and a disruption during nap.

    Today he’s back and it’s the same thing again. I brought the baby gate out (it’s been put up for over a year because my group listens and stays in the daycare room when I ask/need them to) to contain him while I walk out of the room, but that doesn’t help the screaming when I’m out of his sight.

    DCP cosleep… so naps are an issue. I had him upstairs in a crib separate from the other kids… he CLIMBED out of it. I have no idea how he did it - my baby monitor is real time, it doesn’t record. I explained to his parents last week that they needed to work on the sleeping with him or I’d have to term.

    It doesn’t help that DCP bring him completely exhausted. I don’t know what time this kid goes to bed… but he practically falls asleep on the floor. I keep him up because I’m afraid if he falls asleep, he won’t nap during nap time.

    I am their third daycare. They said they’ve had issues with him napping with other providers. Other providers weren’t willing to work with them on it. I was very clear last week that if they don’t start working with him at home and if I don’t see improvement, I wouldn’t be able to help them either. They understood.

    Any tips or ideas to make the screaming stop? Any sleeping tips??

  • #2
    Does he stay quiet on his nap mat when you are in the room?

    Comment


    • GirlMomma
      GirlMomma commented
      Editing a comment
      I have a sound machine on. It’s like he feels my presence or something. I don’t touch him (I refuse to rock or pat any child’s butt to put them to sleep) so I just keep sitting here.

      My house is set up so that my daycare room is at the front by the foyer. The DC room is completely open, but there is a 9’ wall (leaving a 3’ opening for a walk way) into the living room where I sit and do paperwork/reports during nap. He’s kind of already set up like that, if this makes sense.

    • Cat Herder
      Cat Herder commented
      Editing a comment
      It makes total sense. I agree the parents need to cut out the co-sleeping, but I feel that way about all of the co-sleepers. lol! I was trying to help give him a shot because it was only day 4, and not even in a row. If the plan was to keep him part-time, that just is not worth the amount of effort it would take for you, IMHO.

    • GirlMomma
      GirlMomma commented
      Editing a comment
      He is full time, he was sick Friday & Monday. I keep telling myself it’s still new.

      The parents purchased a cot. I believe they’re also working on it, mostly because I am probably their last resort and the only provider making an effort… but it’s been rough! 😅

  • #3
    Ohhhh the dreaded cosleeping 😭I wish I had some advice. Hugs to you!!!
    I just gave a family notice for their kiddo being too needy. He turned 2 in Nov and I could not get out of his sight for even 1 second without him losing it. They cosleep as well and have absolutely no schedule at home.
    Don’t let yourself feel bad if you decide to term! It’s the parent’s fault for setting their poor kiddo up for daycare failure.

    Comment


    • #4
      littlefriends this is very similar. I don’t think there is any routine at home. He comes in exhausted every single day.

      My other DCK are covering their ears and starting to say “Be quiet!”

      Comment


      • #5
        When other kids are negatively impacted it’s time to go.
        As adult we have the ability to endure but kids don’t and shouldn’t have to!

        Comment


        • GirlMomma
          GirlMomma commented
          Editing a comment
          I totally agree. He reminds me of the first little girl I termed for this.

      • #6
        As long as the parents are cosleeping, what they have is a child who cannot nap away from them. It's up to them to decide whether they need daycare enough to change their habits at home.

        Some kids can switch their expectations between home and daycare. It sounds like this one can't.
        Last edited by Pestle; 2 weeks ago.

        Comment


        • GirlMomma
          GirlMomma commented
          Editing a comment
          They’ve purchased a cot. I think they are trying to work on it. I am the only provider willing to work with them. The others just termed instantly 😂😅

      • #7
        So far today, no meltdowns!! We’re only 20 mins in, but trust me, this is progress!!!

        Let’s hope nap time will be an improvement… at least by the end of the week.

        Comment


        • Cat Herder
          Cat Herder commented
          Editing a comment
          Great news. I will hope with you for continued progress!

      • #8
        Update…

        Wednesday and Thursday during nap DCK, the kid had to lay in the same room as me. He tossed and turned but finally went to sleep for about an hour and a half both days. He played with the other kids and kept his distance from me, but kept coming to check on me if I was doing something.

        I was closed Friday… so I knew we’d be starting all over this week.

        Yesterday, the kid was EXHAUSTED. He was nodding out while sitting up, SCREAMING. After 45 minutes of screaming, I called for pick up. DCP thanked me for my patience and understood why I called. I advised DCP to follow my schedule for the day so he’s in bed at a decent hour and ready for the next day.

        DCP drops off today and claims DCK got more sleep last night. There is no flipping way he got more sleep. The kid is rubbing his eyes in-between screams, laying at the gate I put up to keep him out of the kitchen.

        Has anyone stuck this out, stayed consistent and had success?? I really want to help this family but I don’t know how. This is week three. The child is 22 months old and was born premature, I’m not sure if that makes a difference or not. They cosleep, but the naps are improving with work.

        My mentor suggested I do a written plan of action where I require he has a solid bedtime routine, gets xx amount of hours of sleep with a solid morning routine before arriving to DC. If there is no improvement in two weeks, they have to go.

        DCM works later in the AM. Should I require her to do the drop off so it’s not so early for him? I don’t want to do part-time care because I feel like the inconsistency wouldn’t be good for him.
        Last edited by GirlMomma; 1 week ago.

        Comment


        • GirlMomma
          GirlMomma commented
          Editing a comment
          I got his cot out and laid him down for a 20 minute. I woke him up gently and kindly… it worked. He’s in a better mood and is content.

          This is a sleep issue.

      • #9
        Originally posted by GirlMomma View Post
        I got his cot out and laid him down for a 20 minute. I woke him up gently and kindly… it worked. He’s in a better mood and is content.

        This is a sleep issue.
        What is his schedule from the time he leaves your daycare until the next day? Reason I'm asking is because if he's going to bed early like 6-7pm and then getting up early he's sleeping to long and then he's ill. I notice with myself if I go to bed early I feel like crap the next day because I got to much sleep
        Christy Sewell

        Comment


        • GirlMomma
          GirlMomma commented
          Editing a comment
          He leaves at 3:45, goes home and I don’t know what happens from there.

          Last night, I was told he was asleep at 5 with grandma. Then they started the bedtime routine at 8:45 but “don’t know when he actually fell asleep.”

      • #10
        If they are still co-sleeping, knowing how hard you are working to fix it, I'd term immediately.

        I am only willing to help those that are willing to help themselves. They know better, now. No excuses.

        Comment


        • GirlMomma
          GirlMomma commented
          Editing a comment
          I actually haven’t flat out asked this. Based on their verbiage, they’ve stopped co-sleeping. But I am not 100% sure. I also am not willing to work with anyone that isn’t working to change this.

        • GirlMomma
          GirlMomma commented
          Editing a comment
          CH he is going down on a cot without issue and staying asleep. This has improved since his first day. That’s another reason why I think the co-sleeping has stopped? Maybe I’m wrong he’s just adjusted to the cot? 🤷‍♀️

      • #11
        Originally posted by GirlMomma View Post
        Has anyone stuck this out, stayed consistent and had success??
        I have worked with some pretty tough kids and it turned out great in the end. When it was time for them to go to kindergarten, I was actually sad to see them go. I often look back and wonder, though, if it was worth sticking it out when I think about the impact it had on the other kids and on me. If you've begun to see improvement and working with this family isn't completely draining you, I'd maybe go with your mentor's plan. Give it another 2 weeks and reassess at that point. If, on the other hand, the thought of another 2 weeks with this kid makes you want to start crying or the other kids in your care are showing signs of stress, it may be time to term now.

        Before I suggested a later drop off time, I'd want to make sure that it wouldn't impact nap time for everyone else. If later drop off means dcb will be sleeping in each morning and then not be able to sleep when the other kids are taking their naps, I wouldn't make the change.

        Comment


        • #12
          Originally posted by GirlMomma View Post
          He leaves at 3:45, goes home and I don’t know what happens from there.

          Last night, I was told he was asleep at 5 with grandma. Then they started the bedtime routine at 8:45 but “don’t know when he actually fell asleep.”
          Sounds like to me they need a routine they can actually stick to. Sure wish Jo Frost could intervene
          Christy Sewell

          Comment


          • GirlMomma
            GirlMomma commented
            Editing a comment
            I can’t agree more! I have stressed this to them.

        • #13
          Originally posted by e.j. View Post
          Before I suggested a later drop off time, I'd want to make sure that it wouldn't impact nap time for everyone else. If later drop off means dcb will be sleeping in each morning and then not be able to sleep when the other kids are taking their naps, I wouldn't make the change.
          Your first paragraph is spot on.

          Here is what I was thinking of putting on the action plan. I have never done this before, so please feel free to help me with the wording!

          “The parents are expected to establish a consistent bedtime routine with the child. The parents are expected to put the child to bed at a reasonable hour to ensure the child is getting a minimum of 10 hours of sleep/night.

          The child needs to be woken up at 8:00 AM each morning. The child should have a consistent morning routine in which he is fed breakfast and dressed.

          The child should arrive at daycare at 9:30 AM. The time will adjust by 10 minutes until the arrival time is 7:45 AM once the child has adjusted to the new bedtime and morning routine. If there is no improvement by xx, The Provider reserves the right to move forward with the termination.”


          Is this too much???
          Last edited by GirlMomma; 1 week ago.

          Comment


          • e.j.
            e.j. commented
            Editing a comment
            Just seeing this now. I think it sounds good if your state requires you to have a formal action plan on file to prove that you've tried to work with the parents and child. You shouldn't have to spell it out for the parents step by step like this but unfortunately, in some cases, you do if you want to see change happen.

            If you're not required to have a written plan, I agree with what BC said. The parents either want this to work or they don't. If they want it to work out, they're going to have to make changes at home that allow dcb to get a better night's sleep so he can function the next day. If they ask for advice, I'd tell them what you said above. Hopefully if you give them a deadline and a warning that you'll need to term if things don't change by that date, they'll get on the stick and make some changes.

          • GirlMomma
            GirlMomma commented
            Editing a comment
            e.j. Thank you!!

        • #14
          Honestly, you shouldn’t have to be laying it all out for them.

          I would say he needs to get adequate quality sleep and if at any time you notice he’s nodding off or not prepared for the day, send him home.

          Just tell the parents you’re willing to give it x number of days and if there is no improvement in his tiredness; term.
          Like CH said, I won’t work with those that won’t/don’t work with me.

          It makes zero difference to me if parents co-sleeps or not. I ONLY care about DCKs behavior and level of alertness while at daycare. Some kids can co-sleep and have no problems napping solo at daycare.

          Others can’t make the change so I base my willingness to keep a kid on what they do AT daycare. Parents need to adjust their practices to ensure their child can function in care. End of story.

          Comment


          • GirlMomma
            GirlMomma commented
            Editing a comment
            Thank you, BC! DH thought it was too much as well because it’s their job to figure out what works for their child.

        • #15
          Another update on today…

          He arrived before 8:00 and was fine until another family arrived. Then he lost it. One-on-one time wouldn’t calm him down, a quiet corner with fidgets toys didn’t work and telling him when I was leaving the room made it worse. Because he was rubbing his eyes and yawning, I put him down on his cot for a nap. When I woke him up, he was happy and interacting with the other kids for about 30 minutes before he lost it again.

          Since it was close to lunch and nap. I updated DCP. DCP asked if they should come and pick him up, I told them no unless he was a disruption at nap. He whimpered/whined between bites at lunch.
          Laid down at nap and tossed and turned for an hour at, quietly. He finally fell asleep and napped for about 90 minutes. When he woke up, he was a completely different kid again. Happy, interacting and playing. Until he was redirected a few times, then he started whining again. I told him to “stop it” and he would.

          Comment


          • Blackcat31
            Blackcat31 commented
            Editing a comment
            Just keep telling parents he needs sleep.
            Use your experiences as proof, he’s happy after rest.

            Tell parents figure it out or you’ll keep sending him home when too tired and will eventually terminate care. The ball is in their court.

            Use the deadline for you. If he hasn’t gotten better in x days.
            Give yourself a pass. Term and continue working towards harmony lol! 🥰

          • GirlMomma
            GirlMomma commented
            Editing a comment
            Blackcat31 that sounds nice 🥰😂
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