Mandating Proof of Vaccination to Dine Inside/ Use Gym Etc.

[Blackcat31]

thoughts?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...proof-n1275807

“New York City will require proof of vaccination for leisure indoor activities at restaurants, gyms and performances — becoming the first major city in the United States to do so.“

[Gemma]

We knew this was coming...we are no longer a free country

[Cat Herder]

Thoughts? I am pi$$ed. I have a vacation planned there and paid for the condo in advance coming up in October. I am calling to cancel, now. I am vaccinated, but that is none of their business.

[Blackcat31]

Nice trade!! I was concerned about the small businesses as again, they will suffer the consequences of this. I understand their thinking but I do NOT agree with how they are choosing to implement this. This is going to get crazy!!

[Sparkles]

Did you tell them why you cancelled?

[Cat Herder]

I don't think it is right they can tell business owners what to do when they pay BIG BUCKS for the "privilege" to operate within city limits. I would gladly show the business owner my card or wear a mask if they asked. I won't support the city bullying them this way.

Sparkles, they already knew and agreed with me. Apparently, this has been going on all day at many of the properties they own or manage.

[GirlMomma]

This can’t be legal…

[Gemma]

Not much really is anymore!

[Sparkles]

"It is time for people to see vaccinations as literally necessary to living a good, full and healthy life," he said. "If you're unvaccinated, unfortunately, you will not be able to participate in many things."

This quote really rubbed me the wrong way. Like it's their way of "punishing" unvaccinated people. They are trying to force people to get the vaccine.

I totally disagree with this, and I think there will be major backlash - as there should be. I'm sure they will regret this decision at some point.

[Michael]

One of my good friends in New York has some of the top restaurants in New York including Batard and TriBeCa Grill. He was telling me that he was having a hard time getting workers to come back to work. I just wrote to him. I wonder if this is going to cost him even more problems with restarting his businesses after the lockdown there.

[Annalee]

I have a grandparent here from California and his flight has been cancelled yesterday and today due to not enough staff...my cousin is hung in Dallas Texas on her way back from Alaska for the same reason. No one wants to work anywhere you go; the government is using the pandemic to control areas of our lives that should not be! It's all spiraling south quickly.....

[e.j.]

I'm ok with it. It's temporary, it's intended to save lives and it seems to be the best chance we have of getting ahead of the virus and hopefully stopping the mutations that will allow the virus to become more deadly for more people. In the past year, we've lost well over 600,000 lives to Covid in this country alone; how many more do we have to lose for people to get the seriousness of this virus and do their part to stop it? We're still a free country. You're still free to get the vaccine or not. Depending on where you are, you just won't be able to take part in public activities that help spread the virus if you choose not to get the vaccine. Several times on this forum, I've seen people say, "Well, if you're so afraid of getting the virus, stay home." This is the flip side: If you're so afraid of/opposed to getting the vaccine, stay home. Businesses are going to suffer either way. Maybe the faster we all get back to normal, the faster businesses can hope to recover? As my son likes to say, "Look where our freedom has gotten us so far. Have you seen what's going on in Florida right now? Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas....?"

The government mandates all kind of things, including the need to get other vaccines that keep us all safe. When the danger has passed, the mandates do, too. (Small pox vaccines used to be required. As far as I know, they no longer are.) I'm old enough to remember when wearing seat belts became mandatory in most states and the public outcry about the loss of our freedom that came with that. For the most part, the uproar has died down and my guess is, most of us probably buckle up without thinking twice about it. Personally, I don't have an issue with the mandate that NYC has passed. I expect there will be more to come. I have no problem showing my proof of immunization to anyone who needs to see it - whether it's because of a state mandate or a business owner requesting it to ensure the safety of employees and customers. It'd be nice if we could all pull together to rein this virus in without mandates but that's not likely to happen so....here we are. Again....jmho.

[Gemma]

Wasn't Fauci proven to be fraud? No need to answer, I'm not looking to get into this argument

[Snowmom]

I feel exactly the same way. Exactly.

[e.j.]

"Wasn't Fauci proven to be fraud? No need to answer, I'm not looking to get into this argument"

No; to my knowledge he hasn't been proven to be a fraud. There are some who have said that and it made for dramatic headlines but I think it's important to consider the source of those accusations.

[GirlMomma]

"It is time for people to see vaccinations as literally necessary to living a good, full and healthy life," he said. "If you're unvaccinated, unfortunately, you will not be able to participate in many things."

This is what I find very odd. Parents can choose not to vaccinate their child with well tested and researched vaccines because of religious exemptions or other personal beliefs. The state forces most of us to allow unvaccinated children into our homes or public schools, right? Even though people should “see vaccines as literally necessary to living a good, full and healthy life.”

But, because I am choosing to wait before my family and I get this vaccine in particular, I/others are “unable to participate in many things” in NY?

The manufactured/lab escaping COVID virus and it’s variants are here to stay. Just like every other virus in the world. We need to learn to live with it. If anyone chooses to get this vaccine, great!! It helps me understand the reactions to the vaccine a little more and will influence my ultimate decision. But no one, absolutely no one, should be unable to live a normal life simply because they choose not to get this vaccine in particular or because they choose not to show proof of being vaccinated.

[Blackcat31]

It took almost 40 years before small pox was eradicated via a vaccine. People/society back then was VERY different than it is today. Most people followed specific societal norms that we don't see today. Everything, literally everything, is different now days so expecting society to simply follow the advice of ONE person that had no credibility (simply being an unknown to the every day Joe) prior to this out break is silly as society no longer works that way.

I am not totally sure how I feel about this as I don't have an issue showing proof of vaccination and I am vaccinated but the reasons I chose to be are personal and I feel it should be up to each person to have that same right. I also feel businesses have a right to choose whether they want to mandate masks for their customers or not. If people that feel differently don't want to do business with a business that requires proof, they can not do business with that place. That is the right I am fearful of losing. It's no different than someone telling me I can't eat at Chik fil A because they don't support pro-choice and are anti abortion. Or to stop buying Ben & Jerry's because they support Palestine.

NO government should have a right to tell it's people what to do in that manner. At least not a government that is suppose to be a representative democracy. The cornerstones of democracy include freedom of assembly and speech, inclusiveness and equality, membership, consent, voting, right to life and minority rights. Restricting private business from making their own choices is not that. Mandating that people be vaccinated also does not fit into that line of thinking.

People keep talking about how this is different, this effects everyone....and I ask what doesn't? Drunk driving deaths happen every year and at an astonishing rate and we continue to make laws and rules that prevent these deaths but not everyone listens or follows the rules. But I don't see car dealerships requiring proof of a clean driving record before purchase. On the flip side, proof that I am not a criminal, am of sound mind and body and am proficient in shooting a gun is required before I purchase a gun, yet that doesn't seem to be making much impact on the level of gun violence or gun deaths.

Government mandates for proof of vaccination DO infringe on people's rights and I fully support the resistance being shown in regards to this topic. It's over stepping and I believe will create an even greater divide in this country. I think it won't curb the spread of COVID and won't net the results they think it will.

[GirlMomma]

Very well said

[Blackcat31]

If you read up on the small pox vaccine, it took many many years for people to get on board with the idea that the vaccine actually helped prevent small pox and some people never did support it. There were many anti-vax'ers even then. To them the risk simply outweighed the supposed benefit. The side effects were way too much. I see their points and understand why they were hesitant which is why I fully believe that people should have choice in regards to whether they choose to be vaccinated or not but if they choose not to be, I don't think they should be denied the ability to dine in businesses that feel the same or exercise in gyms that don't care if patrons are or aren't vaccinated. Same with child care. Some of us choose to accept non vaccinated kids and some won't accept them but it's OUR choice.

If a business itself said it required proof of vaccination before I could patronize there that would literally be a completely different story than a government entity drawing this line

[GirlMomma]

That’s their right to wait. That’s why my family and I are waiting. We’re healthy enough that the potential risks of the vaccine outweigh our risks with COVID.

I want to know if this vaccine is going to harm my daughter’s ability to conceive. If she is able to conceive, could my grandchildren have any health concerns?

[Valerie928]

I live in New York. The "covid" rules change all the time. I just go with the flow.

[e.j.]

People keep talking about how this is different, this effects everyone....and I ask what doesn't? Drunk driving deaths happen every year and at an astonishing rate and we continue to make laws and rules that prevent these deaths but not everyone listens or follows the rules. But I don't see car dealerships requiring proof of a clean driving record before purchase. On the flip side, proof that I am not a criminal, am of sound mind and body and am proficient in shooting a gun is required before I purchase a gun, yet that doesn't seem to be making much impact on the level of gun violence or gun deaths.

Government mandates for proof of vaccination DO infringe on people's rights and I fully support the resistance being shown in regards to this topic. It's over stepping and I believe will create an even greater divide in this country. I think it won't curb the spread of COVID and won't net the results they think it will.

I get what you're saying but while drunk driving and gun violence are deadly, terrible things and I really do wish people would be responsible and obey the laws that have been put in place for everyone's protection, I think it's kind of like comparing apples to oranges when it comes to Covid. As bad and unnecessary as those deaths are, they're at least not highly contagious, they're not responsible for filling hospitals to overflowing with victims and they're not overwhelming our healthcare system to the point where people with other health issues can't get the care they need. The first round of lockdowns happened because our healthcare system was being overwhelmed. If we don't act now, another round of lockdowns may be in our future. The mandates, like the one in NYC, are being put into place now in order to try to prevent that from happening again. I wish people and business owners would do their part without mandates but that's obviously not happening which is why we're seeing a resurgence and the mandates are being put into place. The Alpha variant was bad enough, the Delta is stronger and more contagious and there are already other variants starting to crop up. We can argue that we have the right to do whatever we want - that we don't have to get vaccinated or wear masks or distance from others if we don't want to because that impinges on our rights but we need to remember that the virus doesn't care about our rights. The longer we dig our heels in and refuse to work together, the more we give the virus a chance to grow stronger and more deadly. I know we disagree on this and like I said to Michael, I'm glad we can discuss this with respect and goodwill but to me, it's just a no-brainer. Politics need to be put aside and we need to heed the advice of the infectious disease experts if we ever want to put this pandemic behind us.

[Blackcat31]

We actually don't disagree with much of this topic. Where I think we are disagreeing is the requirement to show proof of whether or not we are vaccinated in order to do X,Y or Z. That requirement crosses a line for me and its a line I don't like. I understand the reasoning behind it but I don't think it's the governments right to do.

I know the virus doesn't care about our personal rights but personal rights and liberties are what this country is based on and is what millions of veterans/soldiers etc have died fighting to protect.

I understand that COVID is something we should all take seriously but the BIGGER picture is also about our country's liberties and freedom to choose what's right for us individually and collectively

There is no one size fits all and making such rules or policies to dictate that causes far more damage to society than COVID has or will.

[GirlMomma]

Blackcat31 Very good point BC.

[e.j.]

"We actually don't disagree with much of this topic."

I agree. :-) And, for the most part, I understand the concern regarding personal rights and liberties being taken away. I guess, in this particular instance and under the circumstances we find ourselves in right now, I just see the issue of our rights and liberties as secondary to the need to stop this virus in order to protect lives. That's the bottom line for me.

[GirlMomma]

A good read would be the “Undercover Epicenter Nurse” by Erin Olszewski. She also has several YouTube videos. She worked at the hospital in NYC that was the epicenter of the pandemic.

[Cat Herder]

I'd recommend The Coming Plague by Laurie Garrett written in 1994 that told us it was coming, how and why. It anticipated the social, political and human reactions to public health we are now seeing. This is nothing new.

[Gemma]

Direct to no one in particular, this is where I stand
I DO NOT, in any ways, shape or form, feel responsible for others, because I'm not willing to take an experimental shot, that has already killed and injured thousands!

I get it, there is conflicting information out there, but you tell me which narratives I should follow
The one that wants everyone scared and complying, yet it doesn't follow science, or logic, it offers NO evidence, yet it silence different opinions, hiding behind: "this is something different from any virus we've ever seen"
or, the other one from several international independent media outlets, and organizations like Americans Frontline Doctors, that are warning people against taking the shot, that are transparent with their research and findings, and that are so confident in their positions that they are suing the CDC over this so called vaccine"

Forget what anyone says, after having been around Covid multiple times, I can clearly see that it is safer for me and my family to avoid that shot at all cost, and I resent being blamed for endangering the "vaccinated".. seriously?

[Cat Herder]

I took the J&J shot. I didn't want to, but I did it to appease my husband. Now *they (cdc) are saying we need to take the two shot version, every six months. No. Not going to happen. Pfizer can bite me.

The flip side, I personally know five people who have died of "COVID-19-D" in the last three weeks. Two 40 something, married, couples and a 20-something male. Four were overweight and on blood pressure meds, one of them was diabetic, another was a cancer survivor. The youngest was exposed to toxic smoke at work, hospitalized for pneumonia, prior to testing positive.

[Cat Herder]

Oh, it is worth noting that both of the hospitals involved in these five cases are in bankruptcy reorganizations.

[GirlMomma]

Gemma THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS!

I started researching a lot in November 2020 after I contracted COVID when the virus came thru my DC. Hours, literally less than TWO/THREE hours before I started showing my first symptoms of COVID, I sat at my small dinette, kitchen table with my husband’s grandmother talking. We hugged before she left. My husbands grandmother has a slew of health conditions & her husband is a diabetic. THEY DIDN’T GET COVID! I don’t buy for one second that the non-vaccinated are endangering the vaccinated. If you’re going to mandate one vaccine, mandate ALL If the vaccines!