Roe vs Wade Overturned

[Blackcat31]

For me, this topic falls under the same umbrella of politics and religion.
My beliefs over the years have changed. Mostly due to age and clarity in regards to “life” in general.
But I will say, like Sparkles, I don’t understand the uproar…..But then again that seems to be the common reaction to pretty much everything now days.

[Momboss]

I think the uproar is now the people who want/need an abortion in a state where it is illegal, may not be able to. The majority of abortion are due to financial reasons, and you need money to travel to another state + lodging. It isnt fair and attacks the lower income population.

[SandBox]

The uproar is also over poor not having access to travel for abortions. Then states not only banning it, but making it illegal for you to go out of state. And also are not making exceptions for rape. Not that, that is the only reason that matters for an abortion. Just pointing out how much more trauma these dicks are willing to put women through.

And then next they can go after birth control and stop giving it those that can’t afford it.

Your medical information is not safe either anymore. Roe Vs Wade won under your right to privacy. So now that is not a right for women anymore.

Then they can give interracial marriages, same sex marriages back to the states too. All of those fell and were protected under right to privacy. Although, I really think this is an attack on women specifically.

But basically this is HUGE. This is a big deal. And if you don’t get it now, just wait, you will.

[Blackcat31]

"Then states not only banning it, but making it illegal for you to go out of state."

From my understanding, that avenue has been unsuccessfully traveled before and most legal experts currently state that it would be a long up hill battle before that ever came to fruition so I personally don't think that aspect is worth arguing at this point.

[Momboss]

Blackcat31 it seems like a scare tactic as i don’t understand how doing something in a state that is legal warrants an arrest in a different state. How could they even have the jurisdiction? We accept people going to colorado to smoke and wouldnt arrest them for finding out they did it there, so why should this be any different. Its one thing to not allow it in your state, but to make it a crime…thats crazy.

[Blackcat31]

Momboss I agree! I think it's a scare tactic more than anything. I have found no evidence of any actual proof that this avenue is being pursued but who knows, in this day and age one can find evidence to support anything if one searches hard enough. Much like gun control, those that really want a gun (legal or not) will find a way. Same goes for many other things too, not just guns or drugs.

[Blackcat31]

It isnt fair and attacks the lower income population.

I don't mean this rudely in any way, but honestly life isn't fair and I still don't understand the uproar.
Will it be unfair to certain populations? Maybe...I don't honestly know but there are still options for everyone.
I guess if I felt like I lived in a state that didn't align with my beliefs or needs, I certainly wouldn't remain living there.
I know moving isn't as simple as packing up a U-haul and moving from one state to another but it is an option. I also understand that a small population of woman won't have any options but I also don't feel as though the entire country has to have Federal laws that please everyone 100% as there is NO law, rule or guideline that does that now.

[Momboss]

Id like to think the whole law ending slavery thing pleases everyone, if not thats really scary

[Blackcat31]

Momboss Touche'
Of course! Freedom for everyone IS and should be a constitutional right in the U.S. I whole heartedly believe in the right to "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" ;-)

[SandBox]

Yes it 100% will effect certain people and no, not everyone can move. It is not an option for everyone. This federal law was a right for a woman to choose and her right to privacy because at the time of the constitution, they didn’t give a crap about women.

Things still haven’t changed in that regards.

[SandBox]

Blackcat31 and Momboss
Yes you can be tracked and this can be enforced upon my further researching it. Especially for under 18 because it will be easier to make laws to persecute those. Non abortion states can also sue abortion states and their facilities for them giving abortions to their states citizens. The abortion states will have to create laws to prevent this frkm
happening but it still can be a huge risk for someone trying to break the law. ALSO, China and Poland have already lead the way on tracking women’s documented menstrual periods to catch them if they are defying restrictions.

We will see what happens and how far it goes.

[Alwaysgreener]

"Id like to think the whole law ending slavery thing pleases everyone, if not thats really scary"

Slavery has not ended. There is human trafficking (sex slavery) is here in America. Talking about your body your choice, this women and children (boys and girls) are raped over and over. When the women or girls get pregnant, they get taken to Planned Parenthood and their child is murdered by abortion, their handler and rapist get off because planned Parenthood has a don't ask don't tell policy.

Drug cartel make money by bringing illegals into America and turning them over to their handlers, so they "work off" their cost of coming to America, that is if they live through it.

Then if they do live through being used as sex slave, and escape, their body is destroyed by abortions that they were forced to have.

Don't forget, because they are illegal, there's no record of them living here so their lost of life is not missed by anyone. (Perfect crime)

Since they are hidden, most don't even know that slavery still exists until it effects your loved one or that here in America or how much the porn industry profits from it. (and the social media that advertise it)

[SandBox]

We do need to differentiate the slavery that happened with black people and the sex trafficking trade though. Very
entirely two different issues! The sex trade slavery that is going on today, is not the same as the African American Slavery trade that plagued American soil for hundreds of years. What was done to black people in this country was horrible and don’t want to mix the two.

[Alwaysgreener]

You both do know that slaves and slave owners in America were all races not just whites owning blacks. Anyone that was in debt or being punished for a more minor crime could be sold as a slave.

[SandBox]

Alwaysgreener

I don’t want to completely get into this because I don’t want to open up a can of worms for more offensive and racist comments. And I know not only white people read these forums.

But first I originally wanted to point out that comparing AA Slave trade and sex trafficking trade is not right and they are not the same. Not everyone would take that comment well at all. I assumed you probably just didn’t understand that. Mommaboss’s good point got lost here.

Second, quick history lesson, in 1680 VA Legislation passed the law where all white were free and all black were slaves. And that law stayed into effect for hundreds of years. Hundreds. Even when they were freed, the fight wasn’t over. It’s still not over in many ways. To bring up how white were slaves at one small point in time in the US, does not and will never negate what was done to black people in this country.

Again, I’d like to leave this conversation here and not get more into it because this is about roe Vs wade.

[SandBox]

references to info I’ve shared here.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2C5p4L3qEwc


https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022....html#comments

[SandBox]

Alwaysgreener

You bring up good points about all of that. And I’ve thought about that very thing since this verdict came out. and I know planned parenthood hid abortions from sex trade. And I didn’t like that either. Trust me. And now what do you think is going to happen? These pimps and sex slave traders won’t save these women that get pregnant or pay to go across state lines. Or risk getting caught if these states do choose to go after people trying to flee for abortions. They are now going to kill them and dump their bodies somewhere. They also will find a way to make some sort of profit and probably more babies and children will be offered to be sold to them since the mother couldn’t abort them.

edited out a paragraph that was unrelated. This topic is just a huge passion of mine.

[Michael]

Abortion is a very complex issue. I wasn’t sure I wanted to post, being that I am a man, but men are part of this equation.

Back story: I was a lead singer in a rock band when I was young. There is no money in it but guys like girls and that is the payoff to many of the “musicians” at the time. I was surprised at how many girls got pregnant and had abortions. Many guys and girls wanted to be part of the LA music scene and saw pregnancy as an obstacle to a life that was - sex, drugs and RnR.

I lived that scene for many years. My girlfriend at that time was an actress. Likewise, a pregnancy in her profession would be the end of that career. That’s how she saw it.

One night, after spending all day at the clubs on the Sunset Strip, I came home to my sleeping girlfriend and wanted sex. She told me to use protection, which I didn’t have. I told her if she got pregnant “It Was Meant to Be”.

Well, she got pregnant. I remember when she told me. We were at my parents house. It was like I then just walked through an imaginary door. Our lives changed dramatically. I came out of my room to tell my family. My mother said sternly” You’d better get married”, my father chimed “Yeah Man!” to which my brother proclaimed “You’ll never be successful”.

We had a shotgun wedding in Las Vegas when she was just 4 months along.

While we were no longer pursuing our musical and acting careers, it was the best decision I ever made and changed my opinion on life in the womb.

When my son was just born, he was under the infrared lamp crying in the delivery room. When I spoke to him, he stopped crying and was listening intently. I could feel the presence in him was so aware. He held onto my finger and it was as though he knew me from my voice. That was a magical moment for me.

I believe that abortion is ultimately a woman’s choice but it should be limited to the first few weeks or months of gestation.

The issue for me with Roe- is in making it a constitutional right, the right to unfettered abortion is wrong. In very progressive California, there are laws that restrict late-term abortion, but that law is never enforced. Just like when medicinal marijuana could be acquired by seeing your doctor while complaining of anxiety or headaches, the same thing happens here with abortion up until the time of birth. It happens between a doctor and a patient. No one asks, and no one tells. That is infanticide and it’s wrong.

As a father, I would not want my child to be aborted when they can feel and know their surroundings and are at life’s threshold. At some point they are a person in the womb. Society has to decide when that is.

If someone does not want a child, there are so many options to prevent that early on. I am against banning contraception. The morning-after pill- should be available to those who want it-for free.

I know there is no way to appease both sides of this conversation but as the free country we have fundamental liberties and duties to uphold, We either stand together or we will fall apart.

[Annalee]

Happy you chose life for your son! I would place a heart here if I could

As for when life begins while we are all telling our life stories here; dh and I tried for 7 years to have a child and had pretty much given up until one day I KNEW I wanted to do a pregnancy test. I was very regular so after one day off, I did the test. Sure enough It was positive. As for knowing WHEN life is life; my doctor normally makes people wait till the tenth week to come in; but she had me come in as she knew my history; said at the most I was four weeks and she did a different kind of ultrasound as the normal would not pick up a heartbeat but she showed me a very tiny fragment that was moving steadily in my womb to assure my doubting self that here was really a baby in there and the baby had a live heartbeat. I will NEVER forget that feeling!

[SandBox]

You sound like a nice person. Issue is, many aren’t. Many men push abortion on their partners. Do you know the number one cause of death for pregnant women is homicide? Yea. That’s true. Google it. If a man doesn’t want a baby and to pay child support for the rest of his life or he gets a mistress pregnant and can’t abort it, do you think those murders will go up? They will.

[SandBox]

No one is having late term abortions unless something serious going on. It’s painful, invasive, expensive and many doctors won’t do it. Any stories you’ve been told about a woman just deciding at 35 weeks she doesn’t want a baby and has an abortion are lies and never happened. Unless illegally and under the table.

It should be federal law for bodily autonomy. It should be federal law for a women’s right to privacy. It should be federal law for her right to choose.

You darn right this has caused divide. Women are divorcing their husbands. Republicans that were pro choice are switching sides. It’s over bro. The straw that broke the camels back. Canada, Europe many there are outraged too and they know they are next.

[Michael]

I had a friend in the early 90s that had his girlfriend get an abortion at 6 months… 6 months! It made me sick to my stomach. It still bothers me to this day.

There is a responsibility for a mother and a civil society to protect an unborn life at some juncture. I know the burden that a pregnancy can put on the mother in the latter stages but society has to impart human rights to an unborn child when it’s viable. We also should not revoke a father’s relationship with his potential child. Yes, both mother and father have responsibilities to the child and each other.

If we care for each other, we can find a path forward. We need a better America for our children to live and grow in. It’s the voters that ultimately decide.

Even Ruth Bader Ginsberg stated she preferred that right to be phased in more gradually and that it rely more on a different part of the Constitution — the right to equal protection rather than the right to privacy.

[SandBox]

Michael

So that was 26 weeks. And it was forced. That is awful. And I am sorry these things happen. I am sorry that woman had to go through that.

I am pro life. I am pro life for all races, young, old, rich, poor. Not just the fetus. With that, in my opinion, comes with a right for a woman to govern her own body and make those decisions. As I said before, a child born into a really bad environment has lasting impacts. And I don’t believe children are a blessing. They are a result of sex. And they come out as serial killers to saints. And no Being is coming out of the sky to smooth over the consequences of your decisions. You have to live with the consequences of your decisions until you die. And that is always and should be always, our choice. Also, as a previous poster said, no one is offering up to pay for the lives of these babies for the next 18 years. So mothers, especially poor mothers or single mothers that are just above the poverty line, really have to make tough decisions. It’s not my place to judge them or tell them they can’t.

Don’t get me started on RBG. I am actually not a feminist. And White Feminism is evil. They only care about white lives and stole a movement right off the backs of our black and brown women.

Most people cringe at an abortion at 6 months. Honestly. Most women will know by 6 months what they are doing and would just keep it. That is so rare.

[Cat Herder]

6 months is viable outside of the womb. I never knew they could do that. Wow. Obviously, my education on this topic is erroneous.

I always believed it was 12 weeks barring a medical emergency, trauma, fetal death, or morbid hydrocephaly. Maybe that was just Florida? I clearly need to learn more. Funny how I am still nervous about my online search history showing me looking up abortion information even at 50 years old and long sterilized. The stigma is real.

[Cat Herder]

I got pregnant too young (summer before senior year in high school) because my "boyfriend" (summer fling) tore the condom when he found out I enlisted, to keep me from leaving. He thought he was in love. I was just the new blonde, in a mini-skirt, with daddy issues, who moved to town. I did not find any of that out until after our son died of SIDS and he had knocked up another neighbor girl. I married him because he was "not abusive" knowing full well he was not who I intended to spend my life with. I just wanted my son to have a paternal last name.

Some men use pregnancy to control women. Some women use pregnancy to control men.

No, I did not choose to abort, but I did have the choice.

No, I did not consider adoption. I was asked repeatedly by people in my family and church, even offered hush money and a car. Too many babies in my family have already been sold to rich people. None of them (ages 64 to 14, so far) had good outcomes and every one of them (that I know about, 7) has found their way right back to the toxic side of the family, angry and possessive. One was just arrested for child cruelty, again, last month. Nature vs Nurture is no debate in my gene pool. Adoptees have rights, too. There is no more closed adoption and you are silly if you believe there is. The internet, hackers for hire, and fun little DNA kits fixed that all by themselves. No legislation needed.

I am not ok with Americans having fewer choices. I am cool with deadlines, guidelines and civil liability for failure to act in a medical emergency. Medical negligence and malpractice are already on the books. Some states are run by their worst 1% at almost every level. I worry for them.

[Cat Herder]

While I am at it, I also support physician-assisted suicide. For the same reasons.

It should be my choice.

[GirlMomma]

Cat Herder I too support physician-assisted suicide. Why force someone to be in pain and agony.

Also, I am so sorry for your loss ❤️

[Cat Herder]

Thank you. He had just started crawling, it is something I hope no one ever has to go through.

Being forced to starve and drown in your own fluids, slowly, for weeks, is not something anyone should have to go through, either. I have been forced to watch it too many times, it is horrendous.

[SandBox]

The problem with giving the states the power is you have stupid states like Texas. 6 weeks and no abortions after even for rape. 6 weeks is not enough time. And then… hey everyone, here is a bounty, you turn someone in for fleeing/aiding for an abortion in the state of Texas, you get some money. That’s an old trick they have used before.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/tex...ters-citizens/

I don’t live in Texas. I am no where near Texas, but I still care about the people that will be impacted by this in Texas. I know though many don’t care because it’s not effecting them. Until it does. Then they will care.

[Blackcat31]

The problem with giving the states the power is you have stupid states like Texas. 6 weeks and no abortions after even for rape. 6 weeks is not enough time. And then… hey everyone, here is a bounty, you turn someone in for fleeing/aiding for an abortion in the state of Texas, you get some money. That’s an old trick they have used before.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/tex...ters-citizens/

I don’t live in Texas. I am no where near Texas, but I still care about the people that will be impacted by this in Texas. I know though many don’t care because it’s not effecting them. Until it does. Then they will care.

What's wrong with giving states the power to decide? Each of the 50 states are separate sovereigns; each with it's own unique set of laws to meet their own internal conditions and needs. Abortion isn't being outlawed in the US. It's simply being left for each state to decide what's right or wrong for it's population, like many other laws.
The argument about access for lower income women isn't, in my opinion, strong enough to warrant abortion to be a constitutional right on a federal level.
Because the definition of human life differs for so many, there is never going to be a unanimous point of agreement on this topic and the poll I posted is showing that it's a much larger divide than many think it is.

[Blackcat31]

@MissCait

I disagree. Your stance is logical and understandable to me but doesn’t necessarily align with my beliefs and/or my perspective. This topic isn’t black or white and neither side is 100% correct. Hence the divide.
If the majority agrees then the votes during future elections will show it.

I respect your opinion buts it’s not the only opinion. There is judgement from both sides and I’ve taken personal offense from a couple different statements made in this thread but I also accept that it comes with the territory….. Nonetheless, I honestly believe that this (and similar moral/ethical situations) will be arguable topics until the end of time and neither side will ever be fully right

I think it has a lot to do with how, where and in what manner you were raised. That’s why I think it’s a good thing that state governments (not federal) have the power to dictate. I live in a state where forestry and mining are a way of life. I don’t really worry or concern myself on a daily basis with the current issues regarding citrus growing or alligator
hunting kwim?

Texas can’t be all bad as there are an awful lot of people that willing and without coercion remain residents of Texas.

[SandBox]

Blackcat31

I just showed you proof where in the state of Texas more black mothers and their children die because Texas still doesn’t give them equal healthcare. They are the race that seeks abortion the most in that state. Their babies die twice as much as white babies in that state. And so their abortion bans will effect them the most in that state and make it even worse. Probably some more states too. I proved my point and answered why your question won’t work for all of America and why it shouldn’t be left up to the states. You can disagree all you want but I answered your questions with data. 🤷🏼♀️

And just so you know because I’m sure I’m hated in here, I don’t agree with everything the left is doing! Helllll no! Many stuff going on I don’t agree with. And I wouldn’t care that states got more power back IF they fixed their unequal laws and policies that specifically target certain communities. If they would fix these unequal gaps in healthcare. Stop placing drugs in their communities on purpose. It’s not fair and it isn’t right. I can’t apologize for giving a crap about it.

[SandBox]

Blackcat31

And if I’ve said anything offensive to you, you are welcome to ask me about it. I am not a mean person. I just have problems with hypocrites. And I know not everyone that votes toward prolife are running the streets acting like prolife warriors. So, some of my comments aren’t directed to them, they aren’t directed at anyone on this forum actually. I don’t know any of you. My comment from first page is just pretty much my stance. That these bans will effect the poor and marginalized communities the most. It’s a fact. And I am allowed to say it and allowed to question why warrior prolifers don’t care about these communities that are alive and breathing and enduring real suffering right now, but claim they care so much about life. It’s backwards. I’m allowed to point that out.

[GirlMomma]

From my understanding of Roe vs Wade - the Supreme Court overturned the law on a federal level, leaving it up to the states to decide. But I think what people are missing is : the voters decide who gets the senate seats. So wouldn’t this give the voters the power to put the people in the senate seats that align with the voter’s beliefs??

I am a Christian. I am not registered as neither a Democrat nor Republican. I am Pro-Choice. I don’t think late term abortions should be legal but I think abortion should be legal for incest, rape and medical reasons at any time. My heart goes out to any woman that struggles with fertility.

I don’t believe anyone should tell someone what they can or can’t do with their body. Why are women denied tubal litigations because they’re “not married” or “don’t have kids” and they might “change” their mind? I have a hard time understanding why an abortion is a few hundred dollars and an adoption costs thousands of dollars… but this country wants to end abortion?

Here’s my story: In 2010 I was partying constantly. I was young and naive. I was back and forth with a man (7 years older than me) that cheated on me constantly. I found myself pregnant. I couldn’t take care of myself, much less a baby. The father of that baby wanted me to abort the baby, he already had several children and didn’t want any more. I was extremely ill from the pregnancy - I couldn’t eat or keep fluids in me. So I made the choice. I had blood work done and I was given a pill. No follow up visit was necessary unless I didn’t pass the embryo. I mentally struggled with my decision. I wouldn’t do it again but I don’t regret it either.

I got pregnant again by the same man about a year later, this time on birth control. The father wanted me to abort the baby again. I didn’t. Something in me just said I needed this to turn my life around. I had just lost my step-father, who had a huge impact on my life. Since the father didn’t want the child, I was mentally prepared to raise the baby on my own and I did. My mother and best friend were in the room with me when I gave birth. I have DD my last name. We went home two days later, no one stayed with us. Her bio-dad met her when she was 7 days old, because I drove her to meet him. She would have sporadic visits with him over the years. He never bought her anything at her birthday or Christmas. His child support was $25/week (welfare went after him) since he had other kids and he didn’t even pay that. I took advantage of any help I could get. I was on WIC, food stamps, Medicare and DD was in a subsidized childcare center. When she was six months old, I landed a sales position in corporate world. I was able to build her a good life and was completely off of all assistance by the time she was a year old. It was just DD and I for five years until I met my now husband. We got married and he adopted DD10, which cost us around $5000-$6000 from start to finish. A step-parent adoption with an absent bio-parent cost us that much.

I don’t regret either decision I made 10-12 years ago.

[SandBox]

Yes it would give people power to put senate in the seats that they agree with. 12 states are already moving forward. I don’t know all the senate seats to these states but just saying the ripple has started and bans are forming. Texas is already done.

[GirlMomma]

MissCait I gotcha

[Annalee]

I know I posted I wasn't going to post anymore on this thread but my dad always said I was like his sister and what I was thinking came out my mouth or through my eyes.

Anyway, I think ROE VS WADE is causing such a high-profile stir, not only because it takes a stand toward pro-life, but it also causes worry as more changes are to follow. It could be a domino effect with many issues going back to the states.

Again, just my opinion!

[GirlMomma]

I saw someone posted that birth control is free and I can’t find it. WHERE is birth control free??

The only place I know where birth control is typically given out completely for free is Planned Parenthood. The same Planned Parenthood that so many people with Pro-Life views want to shut down/stop funding because they offer abortions. Never mind the fact that PP offers free STD/STI testing, free birth control and free bag of condoms to low income families.

[Annalee]

You can walk in our health dept and pick up a sack of condoms.....no questions asked....the bags are there for the taking. or you can make an appt at any age and get free pills....no parental consent needed.

And for a little money, most public bathrooms have condom machines in them here!

[GirlMomma]

Annalee I don’t believe every clinic in America does that, but I could be wrong. If that is an option, then I believe it should be advertised as much as the COVID tests and vaccines were/are. I know when I was a teen, I had Planned Parenthood and that was my only option as far as I know, of course.

I’ve seen the condom machines in gas stations. While I find them disgusting and inappropriate to be in public bathrooms with children who can read what flavor they are, I understand why they’re there. LOL

[Annalee]

The government can't meet the demand of ALL chosen lifestyles nor hardships that may/may not come due to these lifestyles. Whether you GIVE birth control free or not, this abortion issue is still there; whether you give Food stamps or NOT the poverty issue is still there (Kroger is full of people that look homeless because the rich won't work anymore); Zaxby's has kids that can't count money; there are a world of issues right now......but we face them and move forward.

I guess my point is whether you live in poverty, middle-class, or rich, there are still struggles. Having the government penalize the rich for those in poverty is not FAIR; same for penalizing the poor for those that are rich! Life is not fair on any scale.

But we work hard to overcome; sickness, death, financial difficulties, divorce, on and on and on!!!

As for health insurance, my heart condition bro has NONE so he usually is offered a payout which is less than what I owe after my insurance pays 80%...NOT FAIR but it is LIFE! ON and ON, we go!

The Federal government can't FIX all of this.....but sometimes they have to step in and make decisions accordingly.....putting issues back to the states, I feel, will help! But that's just me! Right or wrong, this was headed in this direction during the last administration. More to come; some I will approve of, some I will not. But it's not a christian vs the world issue. It is simply a thing called LIFE!